The 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous have brought many into recovery and saved lives all over the world. Most people know that there are 12 Steps, but they don’t know what the Steps are and most haven’t heard of the 12 Traditions. Today we’ll be covering exactly what these pillars of recovery are and how they work together to create a plan of recovery.
From Hazelden-Betty Ford According to the American Society of Addiction Medicine, “Twelve Step facilitation therapy is a tried-and-true proven approach.” (There’s a reason, after all, why people still “work the Steps” more than 80 years later.) How does it work? People are encouraged to take an honest look at themselves, then deconstruct their egos and rebuild, little by little. Why does it work? The Steps encourage the practice of honesty, humility, acceptance, courage, compassion, forgiveness and self-discipline—pathways to positive behavioral change, emotional well-being and spiritual growth.
You’re listening to the All Things Substance podcast, the place for therapists to hear about substance use from a mental health perspective. I’m your host, Betsy Byler and I’m a licensed therapist, clinical supervisor, and a substance abuse counselor. It is my mission to help my fellow therapists gain the skills and competence needed to add substance use to their scope of practice. So join me each week as we talk about All Things Substance.
Welcome back to the All Things Substance Podcast. This is episode 123. Recently, we talked about recovery groups and while I was recording that episode, I realized that I wanted to say more about the 12 Steps and the 12 Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous. Which are the same in all 12 step groups, just with some of the wording changed to match whatever the group is about.
I think most of us are familiar with the 12 step groups, the fact that Alcoholics Anonymous is a thing and that there are 12 Steps to be followed within it. I don’t know that most folks would be familiar with what the 12 Steps are or what the 12 Traditions are and with how AA is structured.
Later this year, a friend of mine is going to be putting out a training that will have CEUs attached on how to support your clients who are working through the Steps. I’ll give you more information about that as that becomes available.
Alcoholics Anonymous began in 1935 in Akron, Ohio. It was the culmination of a meeting between Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob. Bill W, as he’s called, was a New York stockbroker, and Dr. Bob was a surgeon in Akron. Both had been alcoholics. Before their meetings each of them had been in touch with what was called the Oxford Group, which was a mostly non-alcoholic fellowship emphasizing universal spiritual values in daily living.
An Episcopal clergyman named Dr. Sam Shoemaker had been leading the Oxford groups in the US at the time. With the help of an old friend, Bill had gotten sober and maintained his recovery by working with other alcoholics. Before meeting Dr. Bob though, none of these other alcoholics had actually recovered.
When they met, the connection was instantaneous. What they found was that meeting with fellow sufferers was helpful to their own recovery in getting sober. Because they could understand each other. Dr. Bob ended up getting sober because of Bill’s words, and convincing ideas.
This was the founding of Aa. Later that year, a second group of AA took shape in New York, a third in Cleveland in 1939. It took about four years to get about a hundred folks attending aa. In 1939, the fellowship published its first basic textbook of Alcoholics Anonymous, written by Dr. Bill, and reviewed by many early members. This is what’s called the big book.
There was a movie that was made in 1989 called, My Name is Bill W. Starring James Woods as Bill W and James Garner as Dr. Bob. I really enjoy this movie and have seen it an incredible number of times as it’s often been shown in treatment groups and treatment centers. It’s a much easier way to understand how AA came to be.
Throughout the forties and fifties, AA began growing across the world. Groups were springing up in countries all over the world. Denmark in 1951, Korea in 1948. Over the years, the basic text of AA would be revised.
The fourth edition was put out in 2000. When you look at the text of the big book, there is some antiquated language. It’s been updated over the years, and so it’s not as formal sounding as it was in the early stages. The basic text of Na, which is similar but different, has more modernized language.
It doesn’t have all of the same chapters that the big book of AA does, but it has the same concepts. In the back of each book are stories of recovery from people in the program. This is often one of the first places that folks , in the rooms, so to speak, hear other stories that sound like their own.
Many of the other groups of 12 step groups also have literature that’s been adapted and have their own stories. In the back of their 12 Steps in 12 Traditions. There is a global service organization that oversees AA in order to approve literature and handle the loose organization of clubs all over the world. One of the traditions though, is that AA should remain non-professional. It has been a balance to try to sort out how to organize AA so that it’s the same all over the world and not changing the ideology of it while still remaining non-professional.
The following statement is one that’s read at the beginning of every AA meeting I’ve ever been to, and is the main statement about AA and its purpose. AA is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength, and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for AA membership. We are self-supporting through our own contributions.
AA is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization, or institution. Does not wish to engage in any controversy. Neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and to help other alcoholics achieve sobriety.
The big book of AA can tend to be a little bit like a Bible, so to speak. People will quote it and say that on this page or that page is this quote or that quote, and there are traces of it even when people are speaking. My clients have heard me say that acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. That comes from the big book on page four 17. and is one of the most quoted phrases, at least in the circles I’ve run in. It’s also an incredibly true statement that I have on a plaque in my office, because truly acceptance capital A is the answer to so many things.
There are folks that are die-hard 12 steppers, who everything that they do in their life goes through the lens of the 12 steps. They read their big book, like others would read their holy books. And then there is a wide spectrum of people from there all the way down to those who just dabble in the 12 steps show up, showing up to meetings on occasion.
So it’s not necessarily everybody who’s gonna be in this very committed, almost rigid at times group. However, it’s generally accepted that each person is going to follow the steps to the best of their ability that fits their recovery. The thing about AA is that it is based on an abstinence model that if you are truly an alcoholic, you cannot and will not be able to drink normally again.
In the early chapters of the big book, Dr. Bob and Bill W encourage people to try controlled drinking, that if they are unsure, if they are an alcoholic, that they should go out and try to control their drinking. The book goes on to say, if you can, our hats are off to you, but if you can’t, then you might be one of us.
The idea was not to promote that alcohol is evil or that people shouldn’t drink. Only that there are people who cannot control themselves when alcohol is around, and that it is making their life unmanageable. And that if folks identify with that, that maybe this group is for them.
It wasn’t a matter of trying to convince people that they were alcoholics. It was based on attraction, and you’ll find that as we go through the 12 traditions in a little bit.
I want to go through the steps and the traditions to just briefly talk about them. We’re not gonna get into major depth, but I did wanna cover them so that you’ve heard them and we have talked about them a little bit.
If you’re unfamiliar with the book of aa, I will put a link to the PDF copy in the show notes to get a gist of it. I think reading the first several chapters would be helpful. Starting with the doctor’s opinion, which is in the preface, then Bill’s story is chapter one. Chapter two is there is a solution. Chapter three is more about alcoholism. Chapter four, titled We Agnostics, and chapter five is How it Works.
So the 12 steps of Aa, we’re gonna go through just briefly. Step One, we admitted we were powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become unmanageable. This is a foundational step and one that isn’t just checking it off in your mind. You’ll find that in treatment programs, there’s quite a bit of focus on this because if someone doesn’t truly believe the first step, then the other steps won’t make sense.
The focus here is on powerlessness; that the person cannot control their relationship with alcohol. Not that they have some control, not that they are a little bit out of control. Someone getting through the first step successfully is that they truly believe that they are powerless when it comes to alcohol.
There is an acceptance that comes with that that other people can drink. I cannot. That’s sort of what they come to. The second part is often pointed out that there isn’t the word
“and” here it’s just a dash, that our lives had become unmanageable and that those are two different concepts. And it sounds like, well, of course, if you’re powerless over something then the next part makes sense.
Some folks have a struggle with this unmanageability. They feel like it’s too negative to say that their lives had become unmanageable. In true AA form, the unmanageability extends to everything, to relationships, to finances, to health, that they have seen the impact of alcohol on all areas of their life.
Sometimes in some of these secular groups, this is a part that people struggle with and that they didn’t want to come from a place of , what they see as negativity. They wanted to come from a place of strength, and so they struggled with some of the AA language.
The idea here is about humility. That Step One is about, I can’t control this. Things have gone off the rails and now I have to do something about it. Coming back to the first step is something that is super common throughout recovery. So people who are 12 steppers will come back to this time and again, to really get back to the basics of I can’t control this progressive illness that I have of alcoholism or addiction to substances or gambling, if that’s what we’re talking about, that their lives had become unmanageable. Without the foundation, the rest of it’s gonna fall apart.
Step Two came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. The idea here is very Judeo-Christian. The idea that comes from Christianity of being dead in sin, so to speak, and that Christ therefore can bring you back to life, is sort of the vibe here.
And it makes sense. This is between 1935 and 1940 that we’re talking about. The starting of AA. Christianity in the United States was far more widespread than it would be today. While it still is the most widely practiced religion in the United States, there wasn’t this moving away from the church that we’re seeing now.
So this idea that they came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity, it’s a pretty forward thinking thing if you think about the time period that they’re talking about agnostics as well. People who don’t necessarily call God as in the God of Christianity their God, but that they believe that there is something out there.
AA really was trying to encourage people to find a spirituality that worked for them cuz otherwise what happens is that they get hung up on spiritual concepts rather than is there a power greater than themselves that can help them?
Lots of people believe in a benevolent higher power of some kind. And the idea was that the person had just admitted that they were powerless over alcohol, that their lives had become unmanageable. You’ll hear people say sometimes that their best thinking got them to this place in their life. And if their best thinking got them to this place, then clearly they need someone else’s intervention.
And that intervention in the 12 step program is the god of their understanding. And you’ve probably heard me say that phrase as well. I find that it’s helpful for me when wanting to distance myself from what I see as failings in the Christian Church but wanting to acknowledge my own spirituality as a person. And so I’ll say the God of my understanding so that it is clear what I’m talking about . A spiritual thing, but not putting the trappings of the church on it.
The Third Step then, so made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him. When people work through the steps, they break down these sentences and the words that are used are often focused on and pointed out very similarly to how scriptures in different texts are pointed out as well.
Inpatient programs that do treatment on a 12 step basis we’ll try to get people through the first three steps while they’re in treatment. If they’re there longer, then typically they’re gonna go through four and five.
So Step Four says, made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. So step four is often referred to as just that, a fourth step. If someone says they’re working on a fourth step, what they mean is that they are writing out either physically writing or typing a list of things that they have done where they have hurt others or themselves or lied or stolen or cheated or whatever. It’s every bad thing that they can think of. Almost like going to confession and putting it down in writing somewhere.
A fourth step is not something that typically happens in one fill swoop. Somebody’s working on a fourth step, and so they’ll come back to it and add more things as it comes up. Very often it is a very difficult process when people have been using to the point that we’re talking about going through the 12 steps. There’s a lot of things that go along that are common amongst people who have been using. But to the outside world, it seems kind of shocking.
This is part of what makes the recovery group fellowship powerful, is that when people have gone through the fourth step, they too have come face to face with the people that they hurt and the things that they did that were against their own moral code. The idea here is that it’s a searching and fearless moral inventory so that they are shining a light into all of the things that cause them shame and guilt, and putting them on paper.
And then comes the Fifth Step and the step reads as this Admitted to God to ourselves and to another human being, the exact nature of our wrongs. So doing a Fifth Step is meeting with another person and reading your Fourth Step to them. Oftentimes this is a clergy person, a sponsor. It could be another friend in the fellowship group, but it is someone that the person trusts and that the person is able to hear the details that this person is going to share with them. It is not meant to be confession in the sense of needing to do penance.
The point of this step is to admit to the God of their understanding to themselves by writing it down and putting it on paper, so to speak, and then speaking it to someone else so that they can bear witness to it. It is a powerful experience and one that I think can be really healing if done in an appropriate way.
Getting asked to witness someone’s fifth step is an honor and a sign that they truly trust that person. The person’s responsibility in hearing the fifth step is reflecting back basically unconditional positive regard. That they don’t see them differently, that they hear what they have to say and that they love this person, whoever it is, which is why you don’t just do a fifth step with whomever. Because it is raw and often the amount of shame that’s attached to it is pretty intense.
We move on to Step Six. We’re entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. This is some of the language that non 12 steppers struggle with; the concept of character defects. There are a number of folks who struggle with the concept of seeing themselves in that kind of a light, that they have character defects that need to be changed.
In the 12 step community, this isn’t a point of shame. I suppose it could be for some, but as people talk about defects of character, this isn’t worm theology, right? This isn’t, I’m a lowly worm and who am I that God would even look at me. I am terrible. This is just a fact of life.
It’s seen as something that we all have things we struggle with, whether it’s pride or whether it’s jealousy or whatever it is, and we’re not just talking about the seven deadly sins here. We’re just talking about things that we struggle with, and that the defects of character go hand in hand with the addiction and that they are trusting in their higher power to help them overcome them to be better people.
Step Seven, humbly ask him, referring to God, to remove our shortcomings. Again, trusting about that higher power to intervene here .
Step Eight is made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all. So once someone’s done a Fourth Step and they’ve done the searching fearless moral inventory, they then take that and make a list of all the people that they have harmed while in their lifetime or while they were using whichever focus, whichever is most accurate.
But Step Nine is the important caveat. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so, would injure them or others. So this is often a conversation you will hear people have about whether or not to make amends to this person.
The encouragement, in the 12 steps, is to be fearless, to put yourself out there, to make amends, to clear your side of the street, so to speak, and do what you can to make amends to the person for what you did. Often I hear this conversation in relation to, , does the person need to tell their partner that they cheated on them? That can be a difficult question.
What would they be accomplishing by sharing that? It would definitely hurt the other person. The person who is in the wrong here needs to be able to decide why they would tell that person. Would they be telling them because they need to come clean and they’re willing to accept the consequences? That would be the encouragement of the program.
But if telling them that something happened 20 years ago is going to crush somebody and they are doing it just to unburden their soul, that is discouraged. The idea that you tell someone something just to unburden yourself, but it ends up hurting them more. It’s a tricky line.
Sometimes the answer is they don’t tell the person whatever the thing is. Oftentimes , this decision is made with a sponsor. Someone whose job is there to be a mirror, so to speak. Not so much in a therapeutic sense, but in a, are you just hiding from your own shit right now? Because if you are, you need to stop. Because the program of the 12 steps is based on what they call rigorous honesty.
The idea that addiction can’t exist in the light of honesty. That if you are living your life in an honest way, that addiction doesn’t take a hold again. And so all areas of an addict or an alcoholic’s life are to be on the up and up. With no shady business of any kind. Because in that way starts giving addiction a foothold.
I happen to agree, but I also have a very strong sense that you do what’s right, period. Whether it’s what my husband always says, whether it’s always right to do the right thing. Or what I would say to my staff “we’re gonna do the right thing and try to not get fired”. That our integrity matters in all areas of our life, even in small ways.
That’s one of the things that the sponsor does is help reflect that back if they think the person is starting to make excuses for themselves about something, because that is where the slip and slide down to relapse happens. Having someone there who can see it before you is very helpful.
So the amends part changes for each person, depending on what they did, who the person is and what they’re going to do about it. It is supposed to be a very humbling experience without excuses. So no apologies where it’s, I’m sorry, but, or making excuses for what you did. Simply, I was wrong and I’m sorry. What can I do to make it up to you?
Step 10 then is, continue to take personal inventory and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it. So that phrase of taking personal inventory, that’s some of the antiquated language, but in the rooms of the 12 steps, it’s really common. This phrase that comes up sometimes is take your own inventory.
Which is sort of like check yourself or. Watching for hypocritical behavior. The idea is that you’re continually and for some folks even daily, going over the ways that they might have wronged someone else and then admitting it and making it right, whatever it is.
The 12th step is Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs. So these steps, while you can read them quickly and they seem to make sense, there is a lot of meat there that as people are working through the steps that they are breaking down.
So as I think about the steps, basically they’re in chunks. Step one through three is admitting the powerlessness, the unmanageability and that you need a higher power’s help, and that you are willing to turn to your higher power and accept their help.
Then there’s step four and five of doing the moral inventory, sharing it with someone moving on to six and seven, which has to do again with the spirituality of bringing those things to your higher power. Then doing the amends in eight and nine, and then 10 through 12 are about daily life. Continuing to make sure that you’re acting in a way that is in line with the values that you have, continuing your spiritual growth and connecting to the greater power in the world.
These are very much flavored with language and concepts from Christianity, and I think that there are a growing number of people who struggle with that because of what the Christian Church in America has been doing and the distaste for that. And I’m grateful for all of the secular organizations that have started because I think that for a very long time, even now, I don’t know that people know that these other organizations exist because the 12 steps have been huge.
In the She Recovers group that I’m a part of most of us have spent time in a 12 step group. Many of us who have long-term recovery got sober with the 12. You’ll hear people talk about how the 12 steps were really helpful and it doesn’t totally fit where I’m at right now, and so I’m doing a different thing in my recovery.
Now, if you have a client that’s going to a 12 step meeting, what you want to encourage is for them to try different meetings to find which one fits. Because every one of us that’s been in a 12 step meeting has been to a bad meeting, it was poorly led or chaotic, or two people attended and it was awkward and weird, or it was super churchy and people were praying and it was really religious themed.
So if your person is going to a meeting and they’re not particularly religious, I encourage that person to look for meetings that are not strictly based on studying the big book or the 12 steps and to try to find groups that use the higher power concept vaguely, as opposed to using words like God with a capital G or the male pronoun him. There are plenty of those and they are growing all the time. And so it is worth it to try out different meetings.
The 12 Traditions is not something that a lot of people even really know is a thing. It is because it doesn’t focus on personal recovery. It focuses on the group. So you can imagine that there are no professionals leading this group, so nobody’s in charge. Nobody’s spending time corralling groups , or dealing with conflicts or policing things.
It’s just a bunch of people experiencing brokenness, having lived lives where they weren’t great folks, they weren’t acting in a good way and were hurting others with their actions. And now they’re together in varying stages of trying to get healing and recover. These people are not in a great spot all the time for social stuff.
It is awkward, in fact, to see people in early recovery trying to socialize without direction because they really don’t know how to do that without substances. I’ve seen it before and it’s awkward as fuck to watch. Now. It is something that they’re going to learn again, how to be social and be in groups without using, but it’s challenging at first.
So the traditions are built to guide AA and each group’s choices. So in a given area, it’s called Intergroup where there’s a loosely held group that kind of helps oversee the other meetings.
Anyone can start a meeting, but you check in with the local inner group to talk with them about what the meeting is, making sure you’re not doubling up, trying to make meetings be at strategic times so that more people can attend. The traditions guide all of that. So when there’s a problem or something that somebody wants to do, they’re gonna check it with the traditions, almost like policies kind of, and check to see that it’s in line.
We won’t spend a ton of time on it, but I do wanna go through it because it does inform how the group is laid out. I think the traditions are actually pretty good. It was a lot of forethought that went into doing this.
Tradition One, our common welfare should come first. Personal recovery depends upon AA unity.
Tradition Two, for our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority, a loving God as he may express himself in our group, conscious, our leaders are but trusted servants, they do not govern. . Yes, it sounds super religious and super Christian based, but the idea here is that nobody is in charge. No person has more authority than anyone else, and no one is governing. .
Tradition Three. The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking. Nobody can put more expectations or requirements for being at a meeting and being part of Aa. That anyone is welcome, who wants to look at their drinking basically. This stops other people from trying to make groups more strict or to change the focus of a group. That is what this is meant to stop.
Step Four, each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or AA as a whole. So basically that groups can run and that each group polices itself, except when it’s in relation to other meeting times, other groups or in general Aa. It’s a loose collection. It’s not a tight collection. It’s not like a diocese or a CD. We are connected, but each group manages itself.
Tradition five, each group has but one primary purpose to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers. This is a reminder that the purpose of the group does not change. Everything that the group does is to carry the message to those who are still suffering with that addiction.
Each person has their personal recovery, but the idea of the recovery is that you give away what you have, that you build your recovery, and then you share it with others. That is the purpose of why AA exists.
Tradition Six, an AA group, ought never endorse finance or lend the AA name to any related facility or outside enterprise; lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary purpose. AA is not lending its name to somebody to use. They’re not stamping it on something. They’re not sending money to other people. They’re not endorsing shit like products at all. This is built to keep AA from getting manipulated and used in a way that is not what it’s there for. It’s actually pretty brilliant and I think it has saved AA a lot of heartache over the years.
Tradition seven, every AA group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions. There’s no fundraising that’s happening. The money coming into AA is coming from its members and donations from that.
Tradition Eight Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever non-professional, but our service centers may employ special workers .
So there are some paid positions in AA in the global service center or in really big areas where intergroup need a staff person. But those are funded through contributions from the members itself and from sales of. The big book of AA and 12 Steps in 12 Traditions, which is also called the 12 and 12. Those royalties go towards supporting AA and that money has to get used in a way that goes along with the traditions.
It’s really got a lot of structure to it in ways that you might not have expected. At least I didn’t expect it when I didn’t know the traditions.
Nine AA as such, ought never to be organized, but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.
Tradition 10, Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues. Hence, the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy. So if you think about it, AA isn’t lobbying, they’re not trying to change alcohol laws or penalties for driving under the influence. They are not involved. Because tradition five, is that the primary purpose is to carry the message to the alcohol who still suffers not to get involved in public controversy or laws or anything of the sort.
Tradition 11: Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion. We need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films. The idea here is that nobody’s promoting Aa. Nobody’s advertising it. That the reason people come to AA or any of the 12 step groups is because they are attracted to recovery. They want to see what it’s about and that’s why they come.
It is maintaining personal anonymity and focusing on the primary purpose. People show up to meetings or they don’t. That is up to them. Groups can be small or large, and it just depends on the day.
New meetings get started because a group of folks might think that they could use a meeting in a different part of town, or they want a meeting that happens at a different time of day, or they want a women’s only meeting or a big book study group meeting. Those are the kinds of things that expand meeting groups, not trying to expand them, so to speak.
And Tradition 12, anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions ever reminding us to place principles before personalities. And that phrase gets repeated quite a bit. Principles before personalities. And the idea here is that we don’t have to like each other in these 12 step rooms. We don’t have to be BFFs.
The principles of AA are more important than making everybody be best friends with each other. And the principles of AA are the steps and the traditions to bring the message to the alcoholic that’s still suffering, period.
If you look at the traditions as a whole, the ideals here are keeping AA as it was intended to be, not letting it turn into a jewel in someone’s crown, that they somehow are like the king or the queen of AA.
That AA is what it is only. It is a place for alcoholics to come , to hear others experience, strength and hope. and to carry the message to people who still suffer. That’s it.
It’s a really unique community and I have always been impressed with the level of forethought that went into these steps and the traditions. I just think about how many hours they must have sat around tables trying to hammer out what this is and how it was gonna work and how to keep people from being at each other’s throats.
And this is not to say that there aren’t folks in AA who hate each other, cuz a hundred percent there are, and there’s usually a tradition or a step for that. If you’re taking a fearless moral inventory of yourself, then you better deal with the resentments you have against somebody that’s at your meeting.
And if they’re taking care of their moral inventory, they should also be checking their resentments as well and both should be seeking to act in a way that is kind to others. Additionally, the focus is on the purpose of aa, not on whether they like each other.
This isn’t therapy, this isn’t treatment, this is support. And so it’s the difference between doing an in-depth looking into the past, why did this happen? How did this happen and what does it mean and how does it tie to trauma?
And instead it’s looking at how do I get through today? How do I manage what I need to do today? And how do I do that without substances?
The 12 Steps have saved tons of lives. I have no idea how many. I have shared a number of stories on the podcast of folks whose lives were saved through a 12 step program, and I know many more folks personally, I think that it can be an amazing experience for our clients.
Working with them while they’re working through the steps is helpful because shit comes up when you’re working through the steps and when you are getting substances and behaviors out of your life. Therapy is a wonderful adjunct to getting sober and getting into a life that is worth living. and we are able to help people who are going through the steps.
I’m not quite sure when my friend Michelle’s course will be ready, but Michelle is a therapist and friend of mine who is putting together a training on how to support your clients as you walk through this. I will give you information as soon as she has that available and I’ll have her on the podcast to talk about it in addition to her sharing her own recovery story with us. I hope to see you on the next podcast and until then, have a great week.
This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guests are rendering legal, clinical or any other professional information.
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